TIMELINE SIGMA
What is the Timeline Sigma?
The new timeline of the X-Men movies starting with the 1973's events of Days of Future Past. The name has been conceived by me. And that's because it's a "composite" timeline, so to speak.
What's canon out of the 2000-2019 movies in regard to Timeline Sigma?
What's canon out of the 2000-2019 movies in regard to Timeline Sigma?
The 1845 events of "X-Men Origins: Wolverine"
The Civil War events of "X-Men Origins: Wolverine"
The Civil War events of "X-Men Origins: Wolverine"
The 1944 events of "X-Men Origins: Wolverine"
The 1945 events of "The Wolverine"
X-Men: First Class (depicting 1962)
The 1973's events of DOFP
"X-Men: Apocalypse" (depicting 1983)
"Dark Phoenix" (depicting 1992)
The altered 2023 future pulled out from the very end of DOFP
"Dark Phoenix" (depicting 1992)
The altered 2023 future pulled out from the very end of DOFP
What's not canon anymore in regard to Timeline Sigma?
Everything else (out of Timeline Prime) not listed above has been overwritten.
X1 is overwritten, but still belongs to the canon of the pre-DOFP Original Timeline.
X2 is overwritten, but still belongs to the canon of the pre-DOFP Original Timeline.
X3 is overwritten, but still belongs to the canon of the pre-DOFP Original Timeline.
Most of X-Men Origins is overwritten, but still belongs to the canon of the pre-DOFP Original Timeline.
Most of The Wolverine is overwritten, but still belongs to the canon of the pre-DOFP Original Timeline.
The Bleak Future 2023 events of Days of Future Past are overwritten, but still belong to the canon of the pre-DOFP Original Timeline.
What's going to happen in the Timeline Sigma?
The next X-Men movies will answer this question.
After the new ending, some events on the original trilogy would obviously have
to still happen, but they'd happen differently. For example, if Wolverine joins
the team in the '90s, then he'd join the X-Men much earlier than before, which would work because since
Stryker seems to get ahold of him in 1973, perhaps Weapon X happens much sooner,
which undoes the events of Origins.
The
Wolverine would still happen more-or-less the same, though. Think about it.
Wolverine still saved Yashida in WW2. DOFP doesn't change that. So at the same
point in time, Yashida will send for Logan and he ends up on the same adventure,
just without the "I killed Jean" anxiety.
Let's analyze the ripple effects, Doc Brown-style:
X1 is completely erased. Rogue must end up getting her
white streak some other (unspecified) way. DOFP has no bearing on her life, so
she gains her powers and runs away the same way, but must be found without
Wolverine's help, since he won't be a cage fighter now. Magneto probably never
decides on that "mutate the world leaders" plan now, so he's not seeking
Rogue.
X2 must not happen, either. The
events of that film are predicated on Stryker attacking the mansion, which was
brought on in some ways by the events of X1. Mutants and humans will have had a
more advanced relationship because of the new "1973" Wolverine makes when he goes
back. Any fight between Stryker and the X-Men would happen much sooner, and not
happen in the same way. Wolverine might kill Stryker right
away with the new version of Weapon X. Styker may not even live to attack the
mansion. X2 doesn't happen, Jean doesn't die. No plot to use
Nightcrawler/Deathstrike, so the team doesn't meet them the same way, either.
The Worthington Labs would still have to make
the cure, that event wouldn't be altered by DOFP, and the research would
probably take just as long as it did originally. But with totally altered world
events, the reaction and fallout from the cure would probably be totally
different. A big mutant/human fight could still happen, like the end, but nobody
dies this time and Jean never becomes Phoenix in the very first place.
What does happen to the young(er) Logan (living in the past) and the old(er) Logan (travelling in time)? What's the deal between them? What does Wolverine remember about the past at the very end of DOFP?
At the end of the movie, when Prime 2023 Wolverine's consciousness leaves the body of 1973 Logan, 1973 Logan is left without memories of everything Prime 2023 Wolverine did in 1973 (the events of the movie). He remembers everything else, of course: from 1832 (his birthdate) to 1973 (before Prime 2023 Wolverine would take over his body).
We don't know if IN THE CLOSE FUTURE (from his point of view: late seventies/eighties) 1973 Logan will lose his memory in the same way it happened in Origins, and if he will ever lose it anyway. Sure, they will perform a variant of the "Weapon X Programme" on him.
When Prime 2023 Wolverine's consciousness eventually travels forward in time and returns in his 2023 body, timeline is altered and overwritten. Timeline Prime morphs into Timeline Sigma.
Anyway, it looks like Prime 2023 Wolverine's consciousness totally wipes out Sigma 1973-2023 Logan's consciousness. 50 years worth of memories and feelings thrown out of the window in a second. When Wolverine awakes in Sigma 2023, his brain only stores memories and feelings of Timeline Prime's 1973-2023.
Are you tell me that Logan loses 50 years of his life in a moment?
Anyway, it looks like Prime 2023 Wolverine's consciousness totally wipes out Sigma 1973-2023 Logan's consciousness. 50 years worth of memories and feelings thrown out of the window in a second. When Wolverine awakes in Sigma 2023, his brain only stores memories and feelings of Timeline Prime's 1973-2023.
Are you tell me that Logan loses 50 years of his life in a moment?
Yes. Bleak Future Logan wakes up in his body at the same point in time in 2023, but in a brighter future where Mystique didn't kill Trask. He doesn't recognize anything after 1973 as far as the new timeline, yet his body has been leading a life, one which Charles has been watching, waiting for the consciousness of the time-travelling Logan he knew in 1973 to pop-up. When this consciousness does wake up in bed in 2023 at the end of the movie, he just boot out the consciousness of the Logan who had been using that body from the new timeline established from 1973-2023. Surely the Timeline Sigma 2023 Professor X could implant into his mind memories and infos of the Timeline Sigma, but with no "feelings" or "emotions" attached to them. For Wolverine, those would be sterile informations of a life he hasn't lived.
What's the final roster of the X-Men in the "new", peaceful 2023?
Cyclops, Phoenix, Wolverine, Storm, Beast, Rogue, Iceman, Shadowcat, Colossus.
Regarding your question: "What does happen to the young(er) Logan (living in the past) and the old(er) Logan (travelling in time)? What's the deal between them? What does Wolverine remember about the past at the very end of DOFP?"
ReplyDeleteAccording to the logic of the "mind time travel" presented in the movie, the 1973's Logan doesn't remember anything that happend when his body was occupied by his 2013's mind (In 1973, when Logan's mind jumps back to the future, Xavier has to tell him he doesn't remember how he got there because he was on drugs, right?)
So, after the 1973 events shown in the end of DOFP, Logan was no idea what happened to him during the last few days. He lives his "normal" life in the now altered time between 1973 up to 2023. In 2023, Logan's mind's (as it was before this, now altered, timeline) returns to his body (a huge plot hole in my oppinion). He now can only remember the events as they happended as shown in X-men (and every previous X-men/Wolverine movies) untill his mind went back in time to 1973... And Xavier has to tell him everything that happended during the last 50 years in the timeline he's living on!
Logan is not "puzzled", for in his mind, the last 50 years happend differently -a not so original take on time travel, it was done in "Frequency" (2000, directed by Gregory Hoblit, with Dennis Quaid and Jim Caviezel), in the "Back to the future" trilogy and in "Butterfly effect" (Directed by Eric Bress, J. Mackye Gruber, with Ashton Kutcher), and a derivation of it in the "Startrek" reboot (Spock, from the original tv series and the first movies, travels to a past universe and causes a new timeline, while keeping all memories from his original time line). Hum... ST and X-men used very similar Reboot plot devices.
Regarding "What's going to happen in the Timeline Sigma?" question:
You said "Stryker seems to get ahold of Logan sooner"? It was Mystique, under Stryker's form, that saves Logan in 1973 ("Stryker"'s eyes flash yellow) . And, as far as we know, this was a more gentle Mystique, thas has not yet killed anyone...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI'm the guy that posted the first comment here... I'm just curious, did you remove your post because you changed your mind about 2023's Logan's memory?
DeleteYes, man. Indeed, I changed my mind on this and revised the section. Thank you! :)
DeleteHow does logan in DOFP have adamantium claws after the events of "The Wolverine"?
ReplyDeleteThey don't really say in the film, but in an interview they implied that Magneto simply gave them back to him. Because he's cool like that.
DeleteI propose that Old Magneto did exactly that sometime after The Wolverine, so that Wolverine could fight the Sentinels better. Because this could be alluded to when young Magneto in 1973 remarks that Wolverine's claws would work much better if they were coated in metal.
DeleteA couple of questions regarding the time travelling: 1) Shouldn't old Wloverine's consciusness (the one that experienced the events from 1973 to the apocalyptic future set in 2023 where sentinels DID exist) had been erased after he changed the past? I mean after all, those 50 years were deleted to create a new timeline where sentinels never happened and a different Logan exists. 2) Shouldn't Charles (and magneto for that matter) remember having met Logan in 1973 and helped him to change the future? because obviously old Charles doesn't remember doing it, though he played a pretty much decisive role in changing the future
ReplyDelete1) Kitty explained that when he wakes up, all the changes will have taken hold. Logan would be the only one that would remember the world as it was before he changed things. That is why is original consciousness is still in tact when he wakes up, despite those events never happening in the new timeline.
Delete2) Charles and Magneto in the original timeline never experienced meeting Logan in 1973. In the new timeline, they will remember 1973 Logan, but in the timeline from the original movies, that never happened, so that is why they never acknowledged it.
It is really sad, that 50 years of Logan memories from the new timeline is now erased. After his mind returned to 2023 he does not remember a thing that happened the last five decades: who he made friends with, what feelings he had. He could be now a happy father and husband for all we know!
ReplyDeleteIt all means that the man Wolverine became after he successfully changed the "timeline prime" simply ceased to exist!
[b]But really?[/b]
I think that there is a way for him to have it back. You see, Charles read Wolverine's mind in DoTFP, so he knew how far from future (2023) his consciousness came to the past (1973). Xavier with his psychic powers could simply "backup" Logan Memories day before his prime consciousness came back to the 2023 body, so he could give him memories back and Wolverine would have two sets of memories from the past 50 years.
Sure, it could be really confusing for Logan, but this way the Wolverine prime does not simply disappear, and both consciousness of his would be merged into one body. Xavier could explain him procedure, letting him "relive" his live again in his mind.
If that is not the case, and Logan loses "new" memories altogether... well, it would only add to the tragic history of this already troubled man - he saved everyone else losing his own "better future" in the process.
Personally I really hope that they will resolve the double memories problem in later movies the way I presented earlier. Charles would be really an awful human being not to do such thing. He knew the sigma-timeline Wolverine for 50 years now, and he knew all along since 1973 that new Wolverine consciousness will disappear one day.
Piotr,
DeleteSure Xavier can do that. He's the greatest telepath on planet Earth. Plus, I think he already scanned Timeline Sigma Wolverine's mind in the "recent" past, before 2023, and maybe "absorbed" his memories (like you suggested) in order to transfer that to Timeline Prime Wolverine's mind, whenever he would have "popped up". Fact is, he can only transfer memories, not genuine feelings attached to them. To Timeline Prime Wolverine, those would be just sterile infos without any emotional value. It's very sad. I guess it's the price to pay. He saved the world.
I don't think we can definitively say Logan "never" joined Team X. It's still possible for Logan to be recruited, just the manner of his recruitment changes. Before it was Stryker rescuing him from a firing squad, now it's from drowning.
ReplyDeleteI not sure that he doesn't remember certain parts of the old timeline, he seems very happy to SPOILER see Jean and Cyclops
ReplyDelete"DOFP has no bearing on [Rogue's] life, so she gains her powers and runs away the same way..."
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping she is taken in by Mystique (since she'll be doing something else than in the original timeline) and somehow gains her super strength.
Xavier said in Last Stand that most of Jean's ability was located in her subconscious mind, so the Dark Phoenix thing definitely could still happen under different circumstances (I didn't think it was done well the first time, so I would enjoy a do over)